Change the name Product Owner#8

Product Owner accountability is completely misunderstood by many companies and start co-existing with a Product Manager leading to a sub-optimal scenario.

Suggestion change to Product Lead to set a new norm or match the industry by calling it Product Manager.

I think changing the name will harm transparency rather than improve it. The title and definition of the Product Owner is clear. The name is not the source of malpractice.

The malpractice and misunderstanding starts when companies adopt the name without embracing or respecting the accountabilities defined for it in the official guide. The name Product Owner has little to do with ignorance of the official accountabilities.

Missappliance may originate from a lack of understanding over the accountability, which are however clearly defined and readilly accessible for all. But that speaks more towards a lack of diligence. It may also be due to organizations obscuring it with other roles and accountabilities in the organization. But then that should be cleared up by clearly communicating and respecting the accountabilities of the Product Owner professionally.

Product Manager and Product Lead are different functions with different accountabilities. Applying this title to the accountabilities of what currently is a Product Owner would be confusing.

Product Owner accountabilities are not the same as a Product Manager or Product Lead. It would be very confusing if the Product Owner would then be called that.

The profession and role of a “Product Manager” is far more extensive, than what Scrum focuses on. Not sure, if changing the name would solve the puzzle at all ;)

There is a reason why Ken & Jeff picked “owner” than “manager”. Regardless how the industry adopt it, semantically “manager” is lower than “owner”, i.e. store owner vs store manager. Ken & Jeff picked Product Owner because they see at that time many product managers do not “own” the product they “manage”. Ken & Jeff want to leverage these people. So calling it Product Manager may be going backward to the original intent. I explain it in this video

@Joshua Partogi : thanks for sharing the historical context.

The intent was good. In practice, PM is seen as higher than the PO. So it did not pan out as expected.

Yeah misunderstandings would happen. But I like sticking to the dictionary definition of “owner” vs “manager”. It’s a good exercise for the organisation to learn about language semantics too.

@Joshua Partogi : I have a different perspective. If people do not get it maybe the label isn’t so great.

We can stick to the dictionary, but IMO it is a losing battle when the initial label puts people on the wrong foot.

I think Product Manager does not carry enough weight either, but it is better than Product Owner. Many people see becoming a PM as a promotion over being a PO unfortunately.

Well it depends on perspective. I have been teaching people about the semantics and the intent behind the naming. For these companies it makes more sense. Now that PO is an accountability, it becomes easier to explain that Product Owner is above the Product Manager. Because it’s an accountability, the Product Owner might be the Head of Product, which quite often is the boss of the Product Manager. So from that perspective, PO is a promotion from a Product Manager. ;)

I would prefer to have to teach as little as possible. In this case, unlearn.

Good for you @Maarten Dalmijn .

@Joshua Partogi Whatever you teach, the reality probably looks different. Let’s be frank - in most organizations, and especially modern ones, like big and small ones in Silicon Valley, the role of a “Product Manager” dominates. And, if there are both in place, a product manager will be the heading the overall product business, not vice versa.

I think there are quite some sources to look after (most of them not related to any Scrum body), eg
Dave himeself, but at MindTheProduct https://www.mindtheproduct.com/product-owner-vs-product-manager/
or same place: https://www.mindtheproduct.com/product-owner-vs-product-manager-worry-outcomes-not-titles/

The discussion is valid. But I also want to emphasize, that the skills of a product manager exceed far beyond, what Scrum teaches about product ownership! So Scrum guys should better carefully upgrade their skills quickly.

Marty Cagan puts this nicely: https://www.svpg.com/product-manager-vs-product-owner-revisited/
But he not only suggests to merge the roles, but makes clear, that PO skills are a tiny part of the whole picture “countless people with just product owner training – but the product manager title or responsibilities – to put it bluntly, have absolutely no clue what they’re doing.” And I 100% agree.

To be honest: Scrum and agile communities know nothing about product. Scrum’s background is project management. Everything the agile communities talk about “product” they copied from the original spaces. And great product companies hardly have anything like Scrum at the forefront.

So let’s better move forward as agile communities and learn more about “product”. But please don’t apply the Peter principle to Scrum product owners.

@Mike. Yes, I agree that Scrum did not came from product management, it came from an internal IT development which is project focused. And Scrum has been doing well getting those IT department into product thinking.

I think people perceive that Product Owner is only at the team level because Scrum Guide only describe a single team setup .. because most IT department would have one team developing one software. As Scrum usage grew, people did not have any clue how large scale product management with Scrum would work. Nexus a scaled framework that promotes single Product Owner was late to the game and SaFE already promoted Product Manager above Product Owner.

As I mentioned I prefer teaching it according to the semantics and the intent of the co-creator. If people dislike that or if reality looks different, it does not bother me at all. IMO Product Manager vs Product Owner debate is like flat earth vs round earth debate. :D

@Maarten Dalmijn
you wrote “If people do not get it maybe the label isn’t so great.”

Would you also agree it is senseless to change the label to the very thing people misinterpret it to mean, as the OP suggests?

I mean, if people mistake tangerines for oranges, it does not help to change the name of the tangerine to orange. It just means we have to do better at creating awareness about the differences.

It does not help when we get frameworks like SAFe that change the very meaning, definition and accountability of a Product Owner so that de-facto it becomes something completely different. I mean, if you are a Product Owner and don’t have ownership accountability of the product, your very title is a lie.

@Sjoerd Nijland : I agree with the original problem, not the proposed solution.

Changing a name never solved a problem. Clearify may help

Downvoting only because IMHO it won’t make a big difference.

The issue with “names” is that people confuse accountability (previous role) with job titles. The title means nothing, it is their actions towards accountability that is important.

If anything, the guide should make the disctinction of job title versus accountablity clear.